[Patriot_Pride_Worldwide]

It has been a fact all too absent from the universe of football media: something is slightly rotten in Brazil. Six years ago we saw them lift the World Cup trophy for a record fifth time and the Samba looked like it was going to dominate world football for yet another decade. But the fanfare has quieted, I think. In 2006, Brazil were toothless and France disposed of them in a rather simple fashion. Today, they lay 5th in the South American standings. And worse yet- the football factory that Brazil once was has been overshadowed by spoiled and/or out-of-form "superstars" and a myriad of problems. With the exception of Kaka, Diego, and, maybe, Robinho, Brazil no longer has the flair, glitz, and smoothness that once characterized its starting eleven. Ronaldinho has faded faster than Timothy Dalton's 007 career. Adriano is no more the Emperor. Even Robinho, with his very solid form on the pitch, has been living the good life a little bit too wildly. Others, like Luis Fabiano, Julio Baptista, Thiago, Elano, etc. cannot compare with the likes of Bebeto, Dunga, Aldair, Cafu, Roberto Carlos, Ze Roberto, etc. that was saw in the 90s, not to mention Rivaldo, Ronaldo, Romario, etc.

So what is it about Brazil nowadays? There seems to be a very serious problem with discipline, but thats just one of the issues. The team is riddled with spoiled semi-stars like Luis Fabiano, Julio Baptista, and Elano. Dani Alves, Kaka, Diego, and Robinho are undisputed stars but nothing that has come out of the academies there in the past three-four years is any more impressive than the squad Spain put together this year (Casillas, Sergio Ramos, Xavi, Fabregas, Silva, Villa, Torres, Iniesta, etc.). Portugal with Pepe, Bosingwa, Joao Moutinho, Cristiano Ronaldo, Miquel Veloso, and Nani are also set for a bright future. Even the underwhelming French have a more overwhelmingly talented squad of the future with Benzema, Nasri, Flamini, Ben Arfa, Toulalan, Gomis, etc. What's more Kaka looks jaded and tired, Robinho's private life is a matter of some concern (and could turn into a distraction sooner rather than later), and there have not been any truly impressive teenagers come through the ranks in the last couple of years.


Of course, I am sure Brazil will be just fine in the long run, especially if Pato and Anderson develop their potential. But at the moment, there seem to be quite a few issues with Brazilian football and for the time being, Spain is the real football capital of the world.

This post has been edited by Patriot_Pride_Worldwide: 02 July 2008 - 07:15 PM

[depthBOMB]

I see some potential in pato.
But anderson(new ronaldinho) is just overhyped by the brithish media.

This post has been edited by depthBOMB: 02 July 2008 - 07:25 PM

[Beast]

Beast, on Jul 2 2008, 10:42 AM, said:

all Brazilians will be undervalued by Real... that's something we have to live with it.. our short Brazilian love affair ended without much result. the Brazilian attitude in general ( there is exceptions of course ) does not fit well with Real (party boys, drinking..etc ) the 2 most common names in transfer rumors are Baptista & Robinho...

while we met with success with the Argies/French & Spanish ..add to that the Dutch. they are all hard workers & team players...Brazilians at the moment smell trouble, always more money always more demands.. Robinho is very talented but we all saw what happen to the Brazilians when they reach the age of 27ish... they don't keep up with their old form I'm not saying Robinho is bad or not talented but i fear he will join the old list of Brazilians before him (Romario,Ronaldo,Dinho...etc )

its better to invest in other nationalities who possess that hard working technique and professional approach to their lifestyle on & off the pitch .. Brazilians ATM are soo yesterday
we don't need to get Ronaldo in particular but Villa , Huntelaar or Nasri would give a more long term stability in terms of form and output

if there is a time to milk Robinho it must be NOW before he start to lose form and cause problems

anyhow Real has decided to renew his contract and push his salary from 2.4 Mil a year to 3.5 Mil

i was saying the above this morning... i believe it'll be a little longer before we see a different Brazil.. after several failures maybe the new breed will learn

[Galactico]

Anderson was well hyped before the British press had caught onto his name.

As we say over in the Madrid topic, it's all about the Argentinians now, for us. Brazil will still produce the quality players they have been known for, too many Brazilians in one squad is trouble as we found out.

[depthBOMB]

The only problem with Argentina is that they are producing ONLY midgets(including the ones in the Argentina Primera division).

[Beast]

its not about midgets .. its about their approach to the game... Spain did well with 3 midgets in the midfield...some midgets are tough violent cookies like Banega

look at the departing stars.. Dinho,Robinho,Sobis,Baptista (even Deco ) ..etc all Brazilians

This post has been edited by Beast: 02 July 2008 - 08:07 PM

[LaFuriaBlaugrana]

How about Senna?!?

The problem with Brazil is their football administration is a joke. It's not that the likes of Spain don't have some severe problems at the top, but for Brazil the top is a corrupt sh*thole.

The fact is Brazil is still producing very talented players; just look at how many Brazilians featured in the Euros. One of Spain's missing pieces and probably their most consistent performers was a Brazilian, while teams from Portugal to Poland all had Brazilians as their best players.

The first thing that needs to change is Dunga. It should be clear to anyone who has watched Brazil during his era that the man is destroying the national team. It's not only with his boring, negative approach to football, he is also an arrogant control freak who has filled the team with yes-men regardless of the qualities - players like Gilberto Silva aren't even starting for their clubs, while others such as Diego have constantly flopped but continue to get chances. As a Brazilian journalist said, the team has become just like their coach - arrogant and uninspiring.

I don't care that he won the Copa Liberatadores, the credit for that goes more to Basile and Argentina's failures as anyone who saw how Mexico humiliated Brazil in the group stage would know, had Brazil been forced to play Mexico or Paraguay in the knock out stages then their disgrace of a coach would already be gone, rightfully joining Hugo Sanchez on the unemployment line.

This post has been edited by LaFuriaBlaugrana: 02 July 2008 - 08:14 PM

[Beast]

Dunga is not responsible for their failure as players.. the players are... does Dunga tell Dinho not to train & eat more ? i don't understand the how Dunga is relevant to the topic ?!
Talent is not everything.. u know better since as a cule u came across plenty of those latley..

the problem is the characters.. those new rich boys who think they are top of the world and start partying & drinking like there is no tomorrow.. sadly the exceptions are now very few compared to lets say Romario days..

Senna like Sylvinho,Kaka,Cafu..etc has different approach to his personal life..no one said all of them have crap attitude but the majority is .. and that's the problem , the moment they hit stardom they soon fade away quicker then u'd expect

This post has been edited by Beast: 02 July 2008 - 08:19 PM

[LaFuriaBlaugrana]

You are contradicting previous points you made about how well behaved the likes of Kaka are and of course the likes of Pele, etc. The likes of Adriano and Ronaldinho are hardly the majority and along with less talented players like Fabiano have been known for their poor attitudes throughout their careers.

Yes, Brazil has always dealt with uncontrollable party boys, from Garrincha to Romario to Ronaldinho, it's always a liability but it doesn't prevent these players from having success on both the club and country level. This is absolutely nothing new, the fact remains that Brazil is still producing more unsung heroes that play for multiple national teams. There are still the likes of Hernanes and Rafinha that clubs are lusting over, while nobody could shut up about Pato during the season.

I honestly don't think much has changed, and as soon as the Brazilian national team gets a half decent manager all their shortcomings will be overlooked once again. The fact that the original post in this topic mentions Pepe, a born and breed Brazilian as an example of how Europeans are doing everything right shows that this is a joke.

This post has been edited by LaFuriaBlaugrana: 02 July 2008 - 08:34 PM

[Beast]

LaFuriaBlaugrana, on Jul 2 2008, 11:31 PM, said:

You are contradicting previous points you made about how well behaved the likes of Kaka are and of course the likes of Pele, etc.

huh where ?

Quote

Yes, Brazil has always dealt with uncontrollable party boys, from Garrincha to Romario to Ronaldinho, it's always a liability but it doesn't prevent these players from having success on both the club and country level. This is absolutely nothing new, the fact remains that Brazil is still producing more unsung heroes that play for multiple national teams. There are still the likes of Hernanes and Rafinha that clubs are lusting over.

I honestly don't think much has changed, and as soon as the Brazilian national team gets a half decent manager all their shortcomings will be overlooked once again.

the percentage is much higher then before.. yes Garrincha was one.. but one or two isn't the majoritiy.. the 80's were all about football (Zico,Scoratres..etc ) the 90's you had Romario while the rest were discplined.. u can live with one or 2 max.. now u have plenty Robinho,Dinho,Baptista,Ronaldo,Ronaldinho.. apart from Kaka they are the top of the Brazilian cream
Pato & Anderson are still not there yet its premature .. when u look @ the Argies u'll have one max every once in a blue moon

its not about Dunga.. national coaches won't do much difference.. its about the idea that now every club are taking a huge risk contracting a Brazilian.. lots of extra baggage with everyone..
how many Brazilians the Big guns are after ? no one ...forgive me that i'm not yet sold to Hernandez & co ..

This post has been edited by Beast: 02 July 2008 - 08:37 PM

[FCB-Mo]

Quote

how many Brazilians the Big guns are after ? no one ...

We just signed one today.......

[LaFuriaBlaugrana]

You had an argument with me before where you claimed most great players were not f*cked up Maradona style, you mentioned plenty of Brazilians to prove your point, and of course included Kaka in your point.

Romario's generation wasn't particularly built on flair so yes there was more discipline but the "samba boy" style Brazilians have always been among the biggest partiers. The original topic claimed the current generation has nothing on the 2002 World Cup winning team yet if you look at most of the problems its rooted in that generation...Ronaldo is the most recognized Brazilian figure of the 90s and 00s and he is hardly a choir boy, whatever antics the likes of Robinho and co get into are usually based on the clique that started with him, Ronaldinho, Denilson, etc. It's been going on since the 90s, it's just more noticeable when the national team is playing such horrible football.

The only two figures that really stand out on their bad behavior are Ronaldinho and Adriano, the latter of which had serious issues.

This post has been edited by LaFuriaBlaugrana: 02 July 2008 - 08:44 PM

[Beast]

FCB-Mo, on Jul 2 2008, 11:40 PM, said:

We just signed one today.......

Alves is a party boy... whether he'll turn up like Dinho or not remains to be seen.. being a star in Seville is one thing and in the likes of Real or Barca ..etc is a totally different thing

LaFuriaBlaugrana, on Jul 2 2008, 11:42 PM, said:

You had an argument with me before where you claimed most great players were not f*cked up Maradona style, you mentioned plenty of Brazilians to prove your point, and of course included Kaka in your point.

and nothing has changed read below

Beast, on Jul 2 2008, 11:17 PM, said:

Senna like Sylvinho,Kaka,Cafu..etc has different approach to his personal life..no one said all of them have crap attitude but the majority is .. and that's the problem , the moment they hit stardom they soon fade away quicker then u'd expect

the Brazilians before this generation had minimum party boy life style stars... Kaka still remain an exemplary star which i respect a lot

Quote

Romario's generation wasn't particularly built on flair so yes there was more discipline but the "samba boy" style Brazilians have always been among the biggest partiers. The original topic claimed the current generation has nothing on the 2002 World Cup winning team yet if you look at most of the problems its rooted in that generation...Ronaldo is the most recognized Brazilian figure of the 90s and 00s and he is hardly a choir boy, whatever antics the likes of Robinho and co get into are usually based on the clique that started with him, Ronaldinho, Denilson, etc. It's been going on since the 90s, it's just more noticeable when the national team is playing such horrible football.

I think its down to the fact that the majority of game changers are party boys not like before.. in 2002 Ronaldo was back from a long lay off & was concentrating on his game & reviving his career.. Rivaldo can't even smile if he want to and the remaining party boy was Dinho one.. now take out the party boys and u'll have a very very average team (especially in the famour forward line which they always excelled in ) with only Kaka to look up too... the playboys are all forwards its not a surprise that Dunga is deploying that fuckhead with a blue ribbon as his main forward

This post has been edited by Beast: 02 July 2008 - 08:49 PM

[bole7]

Alves isn't party boy. His team mates from Sevilla described him like man who'd rather watch good football match on TV than go out and party.

This post has been edited by bole7: 02 July 2008 - 09:12 PM

[Beast]

bole7, on Jul 3 2008, 12:12 AM, said:

Alves isn't party boy. His team mates from Sevilla described him like man who'd rather watch good football match on TV than go out and party.

as if Del Nido will allow that... i've read reports before about him partying back in Brazil with the rest of them
however all of them were kittens before moving to big clubs and being famous & extra rich... lets wait when his bank account gets filthy rich